Friday, October 05, 2012

My Commentary on Ezekiel's Gog in chapters 38 & 39


Mountains of Israel Gog will be Judged by God on two times, 1000 years apart-copyrighted-All rights
     © This material is copyrighted all rights reserved      Israel Mountains compliments of Daniel Ventura on Wikipedia; red & black writing on image are changes by RobertLeeRE
              This has been a work in progress since July 2009                                                         
        A Study on Ezekiel's
          Gog  and Magog  
       Author's Preface 
 
    The top picture is where Gog and Magog will be judged by God, on the mountains of Israel. The large picture to the upper  left  are the mountains of Israel while below and on the right, in a smaller picture is the Valley of Armageddon, also known asd the Valley of Megiddo,  which is where the armies of the world will be drawn by the Antichrist, also called the Abomination of Desolation. These are two seperate wars during the last part of Tribulation , the spotted , striped sheep great harvest portion.
       Do not confuse Armageddon with the two Gog Magog wars. Three seperate wars, three seperate judgements by God that are about 7 years apart, the other one a 1000 years later. So in a nutshell it will go in this order: rapture, Gog Magog war, 6 to 7 years of tribulation, judgment and purging of goats from sheep, 1000 year millennium, Gog Magog war again and final Great White Throne Judgment.
       One Armegeddon at the end of that 7 year period, first Gog Magog attack at the beginning of that 7 year period right after the rapture. I say attack because it really isn't a war since God fights Israel's battle with fulfillments of scriptural judgment upon Gog & Magog on Israel's Mountains. Scripture doesn't say exactly which mountains but there does seem to be some hints. Israel is more mountainess then most realise and I hope to cover some of that also. 
 
       This will not be by any means exhaustive with more effort being applied on the most recent newer revelation simplifying Ezekiel's prophecy thus becoming more useful in these last years of  The Time Of Jacob's Trouble.  So open your bibles, lets break bread in fellowship as we allow God to be our lamp on a narrow winding path as we ascend mount Zion in a world of darkness searching God's words of truth for an outpouring of revelation that might reveal more scriptural truth bringing additional illumination upon consideration of these [extremely complicated]  prophecies so our ears will be unplugged and the scales flaking off our eyes as we study Ezekiel's premillennial and postmillennial Gog and Magog in bible prophecy. Like the twin brothers Jacob and Esau who were so different these two chapters are also different in our search of the Gog & Magog wars both fought in the nation of Israel at two different times in history of what appears to be 1,000 years separated into what we call postmillennial and premillennial Gog & Magog.
 Generally speaking the issues of who Gog and Magog are seem to be settled overall in the body of Christ. Most theologians today conclude at a minimum, Russia as either the nation or leader or both in the far north are what Ezekiel calls Gog and Magog, where Magog.seems to be the bordering nations of Russia, of the former Soviet Union near the area of the Caspian and Black Seas near the Caucasus Mountains. Some history and word origins that produced these beliefs in the Body of Christ will be reviewed.                                                                                     Megiddo courtesy of Photos8.com
valley_of_megiddo-other[1]
These views are supported not only biblically but historically
 by the Jewish historian Josephus  and the Greek historian Herodotus and the .philosopher historian Hippocrates.  These accounts are significant since they were approximate contemporaries of the time of Ezekiel's life, prophecies and authorship of the book. But we must also consider that they do contrast with much later ideas in which Gog and Magog were thought to have been around where the modern day Turkey is thought of today. I do not consider this theory very credible but we will discuss some of this also.  These historical accounts will be covered and quoted with links within this sermon.
         The order these scriptures should be studied and read to avoid theological error is as follows; 1st-Ezekiel chapter 39, 2nd- Revelation 19:17-21, 20:8  than 3rd -Ezekiel chapter 38. This is the order the prophecies occur in history and less confusion will result if read in this way.
         In conclusion, this study has revealed one major revelation not yet but now revealed to the Body of Christ; that chapters 38 and 39 in Ezekiel are prophesying about Gog and Magog during two different time periods in world history separated by 1,000 years, also known by theologians as the 1,000 year Millennium.  
         This new revelation was revealed after the scriptural cross referencing of Revelation 19:17-21, 20:7-9 and comparative study to Ezekiel 39:9-10, which led to more in depth studies on Ezekiel chapters 38 & 39. One must conclude two wars of God's people being attacked by Gog and Magog with two defeats by God. When comparing these almost seemingly contradictory verses one can only conclude that Gog and Magog surround and attack Israel not once but twice, once premillennial right before the last seven years of  The Time Of Jacob's Trouble  known incorrectly by most Christians as the 7 year Tribulation period and postmillennial at the end of the 1,000 year millennium Sabbath day of rest when Satan is once again released from Hades to go to the four corners of the earth and stir up Gog and Magog once again to attack Israel.
        For simplification and discussion purposes I will label and separate these two Ezekiel prophecies by calling them slightly different names that describe the prophecies by their particular time period in history represented respectively, pre and postmillennial Gog Magog. These important descriptions [will] allow a more thorough discussion of the issues without the common pitfalls and confusion associated with the study of these two difficult Ezekiel chapters.   
 
        The first Gog prophecy from here on will be called the"Premillennial Gog Magog,"time period respectively, Ezekiel chapter 39.  This is a 6 to 7 year period but most likely a 7 year period that will begin possibility at the Feast of Tabernacles-2012. The reason it is most likely a 7 year period is that Israel will cleanse the land for seven years, so the invasion and defeat of Gog must be the year before. Since the 70 year prophecy points to a redemption at the end of the 70 years, the Rapture should either be approximately 6 to 7 years prior or the last portion of the Tribulation period could also begin in the year 2018 or 2019. I see nothing wrong scripturally with this scenario in prophecy fulfillment.   It will be interesting to watch the news and see how this plays out. The 6 to 7 year premillennial Gog Magog time period appears to begin around 2012 Feast of Tabernacles, ending around October 2018 or 2019 on the Feast of Tabernacles, beginning right before the last 6-to 7 years of the 20 year period of The Time of Jacob's Trouble, See these sermons: The Time Of Jacob's Trouble  which will in all likely occur around 2012 most likely around the Feast of Tabernacles. This is estimating with scriptural evidence according to the 70 years Prophecy; see these sermon links; Seventy Years Prophecy 1,  Seventy Years Prophecy 2,  Seventy Years Prophecy 3 , Seventy Years Prophecy 4  and  The Time Of Jacob's Trouble. The key verses in Ezekiel chapter 39 would be verses 1, 4, 6, 7, 9, 17-19, 22-24. This prophecy is based upon in the first verse of how God tells Ezekiel to prophecy against Gog rather then the final judgment brought to Gog in the first verse of chapter 38 when God tells Ezekiel to set his face against Gog. This setting of his face against Gog is indicative of a final judgment from God. 
        The 2nd Gog prophecy called from here on "Postmillennial Gog Magog," time period, Ezekiel chapter 38 whole and Revelation 19:17-21, 20:7-8, begins around the year 3010, approximately a 1,000 years later. The reason we call it postmillennial Gog is its fulfillment occurs an approximate 1,000 years later, after the millennium. The key verses in Ezekiel chapter 38 are, 1,2, 8, 11, 14, 15, 19, 21, 22.  
          We will also cover some of the view of my favorite topical preacher, J. Vernon McGee's view on Gog and Magog. And of course my scriptural view which will hopefully come across to you as also the most updated view today.
         So grab your bibles and lets break bread seeking together in fellowship the truth of how things will play out in these last few years before the beginning of the 1,000 year millennium when Christ will rule the earth with his God followers as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the Bridegroom with his bride that has been awaiting his return.
 
The Twin Chapters Ezekiel 38 & 39
 
       Here is some comparison and contrast of the two very condensed important chapters 38 & 39 in Ezekiel. So let us divide the world carefully as we study the peculiar but very different chapters that describe two different times in prophetic history. Sometimes it is easier when you look at these two chapters side by side. Suddenly when we look at these chapters this way what at first appeared only subtle differences become very big differences and one can see more clearly God is talking about two very different times in history. Why would the order of these two chapters appear to be switched or backwards? I do not know. Maybe the time Ezekiel wrote them down until the time they were placed in a book form they got switched. Or it could be that there is some prophetic reason we do not understand prophetically yet. What ever it is God clearly is talking postmillennial in chapter 38 and premillennial in chapter 39. This way the context of the interpretation lines up and supports Revelation 19:17-21, 20:7-8.     
 
Premillennial Gog & Magog                                 Postmillennial Gog & Magog
  • Ezekiel Chapter verses 39:1-29                        * Ezekiel Chapter verses 38:1-23               
  • 1"prophecy  against Gog"                                         * 2"Set your face against"
  • 2"I will turn you around and drag you along"          * 4"I will turn you around" 
  • 2"send you against the mountains of Israel"             * 4 with a hook in your jaw
  • 3"I will strike your bow from your left hand"         * 8 "in future years you will invade a
  • 3"I make your arrows drop from your right hand"     * 8 land that has recovered from war"
  • 4"on the mountains of Israel you will fall"               * 9 advancing like a storm; you will
  • 6"I will send fire on Magog"                                    * 9 be like a cloud covering the land"
  • 6"and those who live in safety on the coastlands"    * 11 "You will say 'I will invade a land
  • 8"this is the day I have spoken of"                           * 11 of unwalled villages; I will attack
  • 9"will go out and use the weapons for fuel"              * 11 a peaceful and unsuspecting people---
  • 9"for 7 years they will use them for fuel"              * 11 all of them living without walls
  • 11"It will block the way from travelers"                     * 11 and without gates and bars
  • 12"for 7 months the house of Israel"                       * 14 living in safety, will you not
  • 12"will bury them"                                                  * 14 take notice of it?
  • 13"The day I am glorified will be"                         *16 "You will advance against my people
  • 13 "memorable day for them"                                 * 16 Israel like a cloud that covers the land
  • 14"Men will be regularly employed"                     * 18 When Gog attacks the land of  Israel my
  • 14"to cleanse the land"                                            * 18 hot anger will be aroused.
  • 17"Call out to every bird and all the wild animals" * 19 at that time there shall be a great
  • 17"Assemble and come from all around to              * 19 earthquake in the land of Israel.
  • 17the great sacrifice I am preparing for you            * 20 The fish of the sea, birds of the air,
  • 17 on the mountains of Israel"                               * 20 the beasts of the field, every creature
  • 22 "from that day forward the house of                * 20 that moves along the ground, and all
  • 22 Israel will know I am the Lord their God"      * 20 the people on the face of the earth
  • 23 "and the nations will know Israel                       * 20 will tremble at my presence. The
  • 23 went into exile for their sin"                               * 20 mountains will be overturned, the cliffs
  • 24 " I dealt with them according to their uncleanness 20 will crumble and every wall will fall
  • 24 and their offenses and I hid my face from them"  *  20 to the ground.
  • 25 "I will now bring all of Jacob back from captivity21- I will summon a sword against Gog on
  • 25and will have compassion on all the people of Israel" *21 all my mountains ~every man's
  • 26 "They will forget their shame and all their unfaithfulness *21sword will be against his brother.
  • 26 they showed me when they lived in safety in their land  *22 I will execute judgment upon him
  • 26 with no one to make them afraid               *22 with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down
                                                                      * 22 torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him,
                                                                       * 22 and on his troops and on the many nations with him.
       There are some very destinctive differences I have put in bold when comparing these two important chapters of Ezekiel. For instance in chapter 39 verse 1 God tells Ezkiel to prophecy against Gog as if Ezekiel hasn't yet prophesied against Gog yet. Yet this is chapter 39 one whole chapter after prophesying against Gog already, significance being these chapters appear to be in the wrong order. When looking at chapter 38 verse 1 God tells Ezekiel to "set your face against Gog."  This very strong statement by God telling Ezekiel to say this is a final judgment type of statement versus the other statement in 39 verse 1 which says to just prophesy against Gog.
       Ezekiel chapter 38 verses 8-14 state the whole of chapter 38 is about a time when Israel will be a very very wealthy land, a land not of war but peace, of un walled villages, no crime, no bars no security. This all is not of this time. If since all the Islamic suicide bombers in the 90s israel keeps building walls and checkpoints. Israel today is a land of walled villages, attempting to keep the Islamic.suicide killers out. This is very clear scriptural evidence that this whole chapter of Ezekiel 38 is at the end of the 1000 years day of rest for the Christ-followers.  Now when looking at Ezekiel chapter 39 verses 9-12 once again we se clear scriptural evidence that ties this whole chapter to the last part of tribulation, what many theologians call the 7 year period. More eveidence of these two chapters possibly being switched a long time ago or maybe just another curious structural component of God's word.
 
                                                         Gog and Magog Theories
       First off lets review some scriptural definitions and history to get a good idea as to why most theologians today think Gog and Magog are Russia and the old satellite countries above the Black Sea, north east of the Black Sea, eastern to north eastern mountains of the Caspian Sea area.
       We will use some extra biblical historical accounts of who exactly historical writers claimed Magog and Gog were.
Christianity seems to either take one of two theories depending on which church theology you were influenced by.
      Old theology which are usually either amillennialists or Postmillennialist from before the dispensational movement that occurred in the early 1900's seems to take the view that most these old testament prophecies were fulfilled with Antiochus Epiphenes 175-163 B.C., Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 Gog and Magog included. They either seem to take the view that Anitiochus Epiphenes fulfilled all prophecy and even Revelation or all was fulfilled by 100 A.D. when the 2nd Temple and Jerusalem were razed by Titus and the Romans. This is a similar view as to what Josephus took.   
           The other half of Christianity takes a Premillennial view; the view that since Gog and Magog are mentioned in Revelation by the Apostle John in Revelation 20:8, and that there are just too many unanswered questions that give an indication these prophecies are still yet to be fulfilled during a seven to eight year period right after a Rapture in which the Saints will escape this last period of Tribulation. 

        Catholicism seems to take the overall view that after considering other later historical evidence such as Marco Polo and others used the word Magog in a much more general word to mean any barbarian groups in the north country that threatened what was considered modern civilization at that time.  

    Protestantism seems to take the common view that Gog and Magog are Russia and a leader of Russia connecting the words Rosh with Russia, Meshech with Moscow, Tubal with (here).      
    Islamic Scholars seem to feel Gog and Magog are the ten lost tribes of Israel that are barbarians with red hair and disfigured faces that are kept behind supernatural gates that keep them from invading the middle eastern holy lands; kind of  a take on the Gates of Alexander that were supposedly made by Alexander the Great to keep the barbarians of the north from invading the more civilized societies of the fertile crescent in the middle east. 
       Some historical evidence seems to support evidence of Gog and Magog being either Iranian nomads whom later became known as the Scythes migrating northward through the caucasus mountain range which were ruthless barbarians that stole the land from the Cimmeranians to eventually settle land in what is today modern Ukraine, parts of Georgia and Russia. This would be supported by such historians as Josephus and the Latin Father Jerome. Herodotus, considered by historians the father of history, gives clear evidence that the Scythes had migrated northward through the Caucasus Mountain range as Iranian Nomads called Sacu by the Iranians in his History.  
                     Recent prophecy modernists that are mostly (Messianic Jews?) today take the view that Magog are the Turkey and Gog is the Antichrist, also called by scripture the Assyrian, that will come from somewhere East of the Euphrates river in Iraq, Syria or SE Turkey.  These would be such authors as Joel Richardson, Chuck Missler, Rodrigo Silva and Shoebat. Here are some links of these authors and their prophecy modernist views. I would highly recommend them to be checked out:"The Islamic End Time Paradigm" by Joel Richardson "The Revived Islamic Empire of the Antichrist" by Joel Richardson "The Challenge" by Richardson and Missler and Shoebat Debunking the European Antichrist by Rodrigo Silva   
 
                                Apostle John On Gog and Magog
 
       When the Apostle John mentions Gog and Magog by the revelation of Jesus Christ given through the angel in Revelation 20:7-8 it is clear that John nor God gives a qualifying explanation as to who Gog and Magog really are. The implications of this means a couple of things:
 
A) The Apostle John felt no need to explain who Gog and Magog were for it was common knowledge among the Christian community when the book of Revelation was written, around 90-100 A.D.
 
B) God felt that at the time of the fulfillment of this prophecy, approximate 1000 years from now, there would be no need to explain to the readers of this prophecy of who exactly Gog and Magog were. 
 
C) This is all also supported by the extrabiblical historian accounts by Josephus and Herodotus when they also express it in a way understood to be common knowledge. 
 
                                   
                                    Ezekiel On Gog and Magog
 
       Ezekiel seems to have provided the only biblical accounts in the entire bible describing the characteristics of how Gog and Magog come from the far north in relative terms to Israel's location on earth. So these descriptions will be given more scriptural weight than other possible explanations. Here are some of them:Ezekiel 38:1-3,38:7 gatherer of many hordes, Ezekiel 38:9, 38:16.   You and your troops are a gatherer of many nations like a dark storm that covers the land; similar to locusts in Joel 2:2, 38:15 far north, 38:12 to plunder and loot,     
 
                                      Daniel On Gog Magog
       There are some that preach Ezekiel's Gog and Magog are in Daniel's chapter 11 as the kings of the South and the North. Sometimes these same teachers will also confuse Gog and Magog as being the Antichrist. This cannot be so since the Antichrist is not defeated until the very end of tribulation, by Christ at the 2nd Coming about 7 years after the Rapture, Daniel 9:24-27. We also know that according to Ezekiel 39:9-13. In these verses we see a very independent Israel cleansing its own land after the attack and defeat of Gog and Magog. So Gog and Magog cannot possibly be the Antichrist if they are defeated since according to Daniel 9:24-27 we see them in Israel at the very end. In fulfillment of scripture and the 70 year prophecy we will see the Antichrist invade Israel in the last year, the 70th year,the 70th time the Feast of Tabernacles is celebrated for one week, 70th week, 2018, Leviticus 23:33-44. For this is a seven day or one week celebration according to God's words, Leviticus 23:34. See these sermon links:Seventy Years Prophecy 1,  Seventy Years Prophecy 2,  Seventy Years Prophecy 3 , Seventy Years Prophecy 4  and  The Time Of Jacob's Trouble.
 
 
                             Josephus "Magog are the Scythes" 
                                                                 
                                                                      Josephus in The Wars of The Jews 7.4.3:89-95
        

3. 89 At the very same time with the forementioned revolt of the Germans did the bold attempt of the Scythians who are called Sarmatians, being very numerous in people, transported themselves over the Danube into Mysia, without being perceived; after which, by their violence, and entirely unexpected assault, they slew a great many of the Romans that guarded the frontiers; 91 and as the consular legate Fonteius Agrippa came to meet them, and fought courageously against them, he was slain by them. They then overran all the region that had been subject to him, tearing and rending everything that fell in their way; 92 but when Vespasian was informed of what had happened, and how Mysia was laid waste he sent away Rubrius Gallus to punish these Sarmatians; 93 by whose means many of them perished in the battles he fought against them, and that part which escaped fled with fear to their own country. 94 So when this general had put an end to the war, he provided for the future security of the country also; for he placed more and more numerous garrisons in the place, till he made it altogether impossible for the barbarians to pass over the river anymore; 95 and thus had this war in Mysia a sudden conclusion.
 
                                          .Josephus in The Antiquities of the Jews 1.6.1:122-123
       122 Now they were the grandchildren of Noah, in honor of whom names were imposed on the nations by those that first seized upon them. Japhet, the son of Noah, had seven sons; they inhabited so, that, beginning at the mountain Taurus and Amanus, they proceeded along Asia, as far as the river Tanais, and along Europe to Cadiz; and setting themselves on the lands which they light upon, which none had inhabited before, they called the nations by their own names; 123 for gomer founded those now called Galatians {Galls}, but were then called Gomerites. Magog founded those that from him were named Magogites, but who are by the Greeks called Scythians.
  

 
 
Herodotus On "The Scythians"
The History of Herodotus

By Herodotus http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.4.iv.html

Written 440 B.C.E

Translated by George Rawlinson


    
Book IV
My Commentary in red. I added chapter and verse
numbers to assist in scholarly discussion.
Chapter 1
Darius Invades Scythia 
   

Melpomene 
 
 
1 After the taking of Babylon, an expedition was led by Darius into Scythia. 2 Asia abounding in men, and vast sums flowing into the treasury, the desire seized him to exact vengeance from the Scyths, who had once in days gone by invaded Media, defeated those who met them in the field, and so begun the quarrel. During the space of eight-and-twenty years, as I have before mentioned, the Scyths continued lords of the whole of Upper Asia. 3 They entered Asia in pursuit of the Cimmerians, and overthrew the empire of the Medes, who till they came possessed the sovereignty. 4 On their return to their homes after the long absence of twenty-eight years, a task awaited them little less troublesome than their struggle with the Medes. 5 They found an army of no small size prepared to oppose their entrance. 6 For the Scythian women, when they saw that time went on, and their husbands did not come back, had intermarried with their slaves.
 
In verse 1 Herodotus states how Darius led a war campaign for some reason against the Scythes. verse 2 tells the reason was that the Scythes while chasing the Cimmerians (verse 3) ran into the Medes and defeated them. Verse 3 Herodotus states that after the Sythes defeated the Medes they ruled all of upper Asia for a 28 year period. Unlike what the Catholic Encyclopedia states according to Herodotus Scythia was a real country with real unique societal culture characteristics.
 
Chapter 2
Scynthian's Abuse of Slaves
 
1 Now the Scythians blind all their slaves, to use them in preparing their milk. 2 The plan they follow is to thrust tubes made of bone, not unlike our musical pipes, up the vulva of the mare, and then to blow into the tubes with their mouths, some milking while the others blow. They say that they do this because when the veins of the animal are full of air, the udder is forced down. 3 The milk thus obtained is poured into deep wooden casks, about which the blind slaves are placed, and then the milk is stirred round. That which rises to the top is drawn off, and considered the best part; the under portion is of less account. Such is the reason why the Scythians blind all those whom they take in war; it arises from their not being tillers of the ground, but a pastoral race.

4 When therefore the children sprung from these slaves and the Scythian women grew to manhood, and understood the circumstances of their birth, they resolved to oppose the army which was returning from Media. 5 And, first of all, they cut off a tract of country from the rest of Scythia by digging a broad dyke from the Tauric mountains to the vast lake of the Maeotis. 6 Afterwards, when the Scythians tried to force an entrance, they marched out and engaged them. Many battles were fought, and the Scythians gained no advantage, until at last one of them thus addressed the remainder: "What are we doing, Scythians? We are fighting our slaves, diminishing our own number when we fall, and the number of those that belong to us when they fall by our hands. 7 Take my advice- lay spear and bow aside, and let each man fetch his horsewhip, and go boldly up to them. 8 So long as they see us with arms in our hands, they imagine themselves our equals in birth and bravery; but let them behold us with no other weapon but the whip, and they will feel that they are our slaves, and flee before us."

9 The Scythians followed this counsel, and the slaves were so astounded, that they forgot to fight, and immediately ran away. 10 Such was the mode in which the Scythians, after being for a time the lords of Asia, and being forced to quit it by the Medes, returned and settled in their own country. 11 This inroad of theirs it was that Darius was anxious to avenge, and such was the purpose for which he was now collecting an army to invade them. 
 
 
Chapter 3
Scynthian's Own Account of Origins
 
 
1 Such is the account which the Scythians give of their origin. They add that from the time of Targitaus, their first king, to the invasion of their country by Darius, 2 is a period of one thousand years, neither less nor more.


3 There is also another different story, now to be related, in which I am more inclined to put faith than in any other. It is that the wandering Scythians once dwelt in Asia, and there warred with the Massagetae, but with ill success; they therefore quitted their homes, crossed the Araxes, and entered the land of Cimmeria. 4 For the land which is now inhabited by the Scyths was formerly the country of the Cimmerians. On their coming, the natives, who heard how numerous the invading army was, held a council. 5 At this meeting opinion was divided, and both parties stiffly maintained their own view; but the counsel of the Royal tribe was the braver. For the others urged that the best thing to be done was to leave the country, and avoid a contest with so vast a host; but the Royal tribe advised remaining and fighting for the soil to the last. 7 As neither party chose to give way, the one determined to retire without a blow and yield their lands to the invaders; but the other, remembering the good things which they had enjoyed in their homes, and picturing to themselves the evils which they had to expect if they gave them up, resolved not to flee, but rather to die and at least be buried in their fatherland. 8 Having thus decided, they drew apart in two bodies, the one as numerous as the other, and fought together. 9 All of the Royal tribe were slain, and the people buried them near the river Tyras, where their grave is still to be seen. 10 Then the rest of the Cimmerians departed, and the Scythians, on their coming, took possession of a deserted land.

11 Scythia still retains traces of the Cimmerians; there are Cimmerian castles, and a Cimmerian ferry, also a tract called Cimmeria, and a Cimmerian Bosphorus. It appears likewise that the Cimmerians, when they fled into Asia to escape the Scyths, made a settlement in the peninsula where the Greek city of *Sinope was afterwards built.
 
*Sinope was a Greek Colony in the land of Assyria, which later became modern Turkey;  http://www.theoi.com/Nymphe/NympheSinope.html
 
12 The Scyths, it is plain, pursued them, and missing their road, poured into Media. For the Cimmerians kept the line which led along the s
ea-shore, but the Scyths in their pursuit held the Caucasus upon their right, thus proceeding inland, and falling upon Media. *This account is one which is common both to Greeks and barbarians. 

*Herodotus considered the Scythes also barbarians
 
Chapter 4
The Many Diverse Racial Groups of the Scythians
and some Myths
 

With regard to the regions which lie above the country whereof this portion of my history treats, there is no one who possesses any exact knowledge. Not a single person can I find who professes to be acquainted with them by actual observation. Even Aristeas, the traveller of whom I lately spoke, does not claim- and he is writing poetry- to have reached any farther than the Issedonians. What he relates concerning the regions beyond is, he confesses, mere hearsay, being the account which the Issedonians gave him of those countries. 3  However, I shall proceed to mention all that I have learnt of these parts by the most exact inquiries which I have been able to make concerning them.

4 Above the mart of the Borysthenites, which is situated in the very centre of the whole sea-coast of Scythia, the first people who inhabit the land are the Callipedae, a Greco-Scythic race. 5 Next to them, as you go inland, dwell the people called the Alazonians. These two nations in other respects resemble the Scythians in their usages, but sow and eat corn, also onions, garlic, lentils, and millet. 7 Beyond the Alazonians reside Scythian cultivators, who grow corn, not for their own use, but for sale. 8 Still higher up are the Neuri. 9 Northwards of the Neuri the continent, as far as it is known to us, is uninhabited. These are the nations along the course of the river Hypanis, west of the Borysthenes.

10 Across the Borysthenes, the first country after you leave the coast is Hylaea (the Woodland).11 Above this dwell the Scythian Husbandmen, whom the Greeks living near the Hypanis call Borysthenites, while they call themselves Olbiopolites. 12 These Husbandmen extend eastward a distance of three days' journey to a river bearing the name of Panticapes, while northward the country is theirs for eleven days' sail up the course of the Borysthenes. 13 Further inland there is a vast tract which is uninhabited. 14 Above this desolate region dwell the Cannibals, who are a people apart, much unlike the Scythians. 15 Above them the country becomes an utter desert; not a single tribe, so far as we know, inhabits it.

16 Crossing the Panticapes, and proceeding eastward of the Husbandmen, we come upon the wandering Scythians, who neither plough nor sow. 17 Their country, and the whole of this region, except Hylaea, is quite bare of trees. 18 They extend towards the east a distance of fourteen' days' journey, occupying a tract which reaches to the river Gerrhus.

19 On the opposite side of the Gerrhus is the Royal district, as it is called: here dwells the largest and bravest of the Scythian tribes, which looks upon all the other tribes in the light of slaves. 20 Its country reaches on the south to Taurica, on the east to the trench dug by the sons of the blind slaves, the mart upon the Palus Maeotis, called Cremni (the Cliffs), and in part to the river Tanais. 21 North of the country of the Royal Scythians are the Melanchaeni (Black-Robes), a people of quite a different race from the Scythians. 22 Beyond them lie marshes and a region without inhabitants, so far as our knowledge reaches.

23 When one crosses the Tanais, one is no longer in Scythia; the first region on crossing is that of the Sauromatae, who, beginning at the upper end of the Palus Maeotis, stretch northward a distance of fifteen days' journey, inhabiting a country which is entirely bare of trees, whether wild or cultivated. 24 Above them, possessing the second region, dwell the Budini, whose territory is thickly wooded with trees of every kind.

25 Beyond the Budini, as one goes northward, first there is a desert, seven days' journey across; after which, if one inclines somewhat to the east, the Thyssagetae are reached, a numerous nation quite distinct from any other, and living by the chase. 26 Adjoining them, and within the limits of the same region, are the people who bear the name of Iyrcae; they also support themselves by hunting, which they practise in the following manner. 27 The hunter climbs a tree, the whole country abounding in wood, and there sets himself in ambush; he has a dog at hand, and a horse, trained to lie down upon its belly, and thus make itself low; the hunter keeps watch, and when he sees his game, lets fly an arrow; then mounting his horse, he gives the beast chase, his dog following hard all the while. 28 Beyond these people, a little to the east, dwells a distinct tribe of Scyths, who revolted once from the Royal Scythians, and migrated into these parts.

29 As far as their country, the tract of land whereof I have been speaking is all a smooth plain, and the soil deep; beyond you enter on a region which is rugged and stony. 30 Passing over a great extent of this rough country, you come to a people dwelling at the foot of lofty mountains, who are said to be all- both men and women- bald from their birth, to have flat noses, and very long chins. These people speak a language of their own,. the dress which they wear is the same as the Scythian. 31 They live on the fruit of a certain tree, the name of which is Ponticum; in size it is about equal to our fig-tree, and it bears a fruit like a bean, with a stone inside. 32 When the fruit is ripe, they strain it through cloths; the juice which runs off is black and thick, and is called by the natives "aschy." They lap this up with their tongues, and also mix it with milk for a drink; while they make the lees, which are solid, into cakes, and eat them instead of meat; for they have but few sheep in their country, in which there is no good pasturage. 33 Each of them dwells under a tree, and they cover the tree in winter with a cloth of thick white felt, but take off the covering in the summer-time. 34 No one harms these people, for they are look ed upon as sacred- they do not even possess any warlike weapons. When their neighbors fall out, they make up the quarrel; and when one flies to them for refuge, he is safe from all hurt. They are called the Argippaeans.

35 Up to this point the territory of which we are speaking is very completely explored, and all the nations between the coast and the bald-headed men are well known to us. 36 For some of the Scythians are accustomed to penetrate as far, of whom inquiry may easily be made, and Greeks also go there from the mart on the Borysthenes, and from the other marts along the Euxine. 37 The Scythians who make this journey communicate with the inhabitants by means of seven interpreters and seven languages.

38 Thus far, therefore, the land is known; but beyond the bald-headed men lies a region of which no one can give any exact account. Lofty and precipitous mountains, which are never crossed, bar further progress. The bald men say, but it does not seem to me credible, that the people who live in these mountains have feet like goats; and that after passing them you find another race of men, who sleep during one half of the year. This latter statement appears to me quite unworthy of credit. 39 The region east of the bald-headed men is well known to be inhabited by the Issedonians, but the tract that lies to the north of these two nations is entirely unknown, except by the accounts which they give of it.

40 The Issedonians are said to have the following customs. When a man's father dies, all the near relatives bring sheep to the house; which are sacrificed, and their flesh cut in pieces, while at the same time the dead body undergoes the like treatment. The two sorts of flesh are afterwards mixed together, and the whole is served up at a banquet. The head of the dead man is treated differently: it is stripped bare, cleansed, and set in gold. It then becomes an ornament on which they pride themselves, and is brought out year by year at the great festival which sons keep in honour of their fathers' death, just as the Greeks keep their Genesia. 41 In other respects the Issedonians are reputed to be observers of justice: and it is to be remarked that their women have equal authority with the men. 42 Thus our knowledge extends as far as this nation.
 
Chapter 5
More Myths and the climate
of the Scythes 

1 The regions beyond are known only from the accounts of the Issedonians, by whom the stories are told of the one-eyed race of men and the gold-guarding griffins. 2 These stories are received by the Scythians from the Issedonians, and by them passed on to us Greeks: whence it arises that we give the one-eyed race the Scythian name of Arimaspi, "arima" being the Scythic word for "one," and "spu" for "the eye."

The whole district whereof we have here discoursed has winters of exceeding rigour. During eight months the frost is so intense that water poured upon the ground does not form mud, but if a fire be lighted on it mud is produced. The sea freezes, and the Cimmerian Bosphorus is frozen over. At that season the Scythians who dwell inside the trench make warlike expeditions upon the ice, and even drive their waggons across to the country of the Sindians. 4 Such is the intensity of the cold during eight months out of the twelve; and even in the remaining four the climate is still cool. 5 The character of the winter likewise is unlike that of the same season in any other country; for at that time, when the rains ought to fall in Scythia, there is scarcely any rain worth mentioning, while in summer it never gives over raining; and thunder, which elsewhere is frequent then, in Scythia is unknown in that part of the year, coming only in summer, when it is very heavy. Thunder in the winter-time is there accounted a prodigy; as also are earthquakes, whether they happen in winter or summer.
6 To me it seems that the cold may likewise be the cause which prevents the oxen in Scythia from having horns. 7 There is a line of Homer's in the Odyssey which gives a support to my opinion:-

Libya too, where horns hud quick on the foreheads of lambkins. He means to say what is quite true, that in warm countries the horns come early. 8 So too in countries where the cold is severe animals either have no horns, or grow them with difficulty- the cold being the cause in this instance.

9 Here I must express my wonder- additions being what my work always from the very first affected- that in Elis, where the cold is not remarkable, and there is nothing else to account for it, mules are never produced. The Eleans say it is in consequence of a curse; and their habit is, when the breeding-time comes, to take their mares into one of the adjoining countries, and there keep them till they are in foal, when they bring them back again into Elis.

9 With respect to the feathers which are said by the Scythians to fill the air, and to prevent persons from penetrating into the remoter parts of the continent, even having any view of those regions, my opinion is that in the countries above Scythia it always snows- less, of course, in the summer than in the wintertime. Now snow when it falls looks like feathers, as every one is aware who has seen it come down close to him. 10 These northern regions, therefore, are uninhabitable by reason of the severity of the winter; and the Scythians, with their neighbours, call the snow-flakes feathers because, I think, of the likeness which they bear to them. I have now related what is said of the most distant parts of this continent whereof any account is given.
                                             
Chapter 6
The Rumored Hyperboreans 
and the Cult of Dianna

 
1 Of the Hyperboreans nothing is said either by the Scythians or by any of the other dwellers in these regions, unless it be the Issedonians. 2 But in my opinion, even the Issedonians are silent concerning them; otherwise the Scythians would have repeated their statements, as they do those concerning the one-eyed men. Hesiod, however, mentions them, and Homer also in the Epigoni, if that be really a work of his.

3 But the persons who have by far the most to say on this subject are the Delians. They declare that certain offerings, packed in wheaten straw, were brought from the country of the Hyperboreans into Scythia, and that the Scythians received them and passed them on to their neighbours upon the west, who continued to pass them on until at last they reached the Adriatic. 4 From hence they were sent southward, and when they came to Greece, were received first of all by the Dodonaeans. 5 Thence they descended to the Maliac Gulf, from which they were carried across into Euboea, where the people handed them on from city to city, till they came at length to Carystus. 6 The Carystians took them over to Tenos, without stopping at Andros; and the Tenians brought them finally to Delos. Such, according to their own account, was the road by which the offerings reached the Delians. 7 Two damsels, they say, named Hyperoche and Laodice, brought the first offerings from the Hyperboreans; and with them the Hyperboreans sent five men to keep them from all harm by the way; these are the persons whom the Delians call "Perpherees," and to whom great honours are paid at Delos. 8 Afterwards the Hyperboreans, when they found that their messengers did not return, thinking it would be a grievous thing always to be liable to lose the envoys they should send, adopted the following plan:- they wrapped their offerings in the wheaten straw, and bearing them to their borders, charged their neighbours to send them forward from one nation to another, which was done accordingly, and in this way the offerings reached Delos. 9  I myself know of a practice like this, which obtains with the women of Thrace and Paeonia. They in their sacrifices to the queenly Diana bring wheaten straw always with their offerings. Of my own knowledge I can testify that this is so.

10 The damsels sent by the Hyperboreans died in Delos; and in their honour all the Delian girls and youths are wont to cut off their hair. 11 The girls, before their marriage-day, cut off a curl, and twining it round a distaff, lay it upon the grave of the strangers. 12 This grave is on the left as one enters the precinct of Diana, and has an olive-tree growing on it. The youths wind some of their hair round a kind of grass, and, like the girls, place it upon the tomb. Such are the honours paid to these damsels by the Delians.

13 They add that, once before, there came to Delos by the same road as Hyperoche and Laodice, two other virgins from the Hyperboreans, whose names were Arge and Opis. Hyperoche and Laodice came to bring to Ilithyia the offering which they had laid upon themselves, in acknowledgment of their quick labours; but Arge and Opis came at the same time as the gods of Delos,' and are honoured by the Delians in a different way. 14  For the Delian women make collections in these maidens' names, and invoke them in the hymn which Olen, a Lycian, composed for them; and the rest of the islanders, and even the Ionians, have been taught by the Delians to do the like. 15 This Olen, who came from Lycia, made the other old hymns also which are sung in Delos. 16 The Delians add that the ashes from the thigh-bones burnt upon the altar are scattered over the tomb of Opis and Arge. 17 Their tomb lies behind the temple of Diana, facing the east, near the banqueting-hall of the Ceians. 18 Thus much then, and no more, concerning the Hyperboreans.

19 As for the tale of Abaris, who is said to have been a Hyperborean, and to have gone with his arrow all round the world without once eating, I shall pass it by in silence. Thus much, however, is clear: if there are Hyperboreans, there must also be Hypernotians.


 
 
 Hippocrates "The Scythians"
 
Hippocrates
On Airs, Waters, and Places   
Written 400 B.C.
 
Part 17
Translated by Francis Adams
 

          In Europe there is a Scythian race, called Sauromatae, which inhabits the confines of the Palus Maeotis, and is different from all other races. Their women mount on horseback, use the bow, and throw the javelin from their horses, and fight with their enemies as long as they are virgins; and they do not lay aside their virginity until they kill three of their enemies, nor have any connection with men until they perform the sacrifices according to law. Whoever takes to herself a husband, gives up riding on horseback unless the necessity of a general expedition obliges her. They have no right breast; for while still of a tender age their mothers heat strongly a copper instrument constructed for this very purpose, and apply it to the right breast, which is burnt up, and its development being arrested, all the strength and fullness are determined to the right shoulder and arm
 
Part 18

 
As the other Scythians have a peculiarity of shape, and do not resemble any other, the same observation applies to the Egyptians, only that the latter are oppressed by heat and the former by cold. What is called the Scythian desert is a prairie, rich in meadows, high-lying, and well watered; for the rivers which carry off the water from the plains are large. There live those Scythians which are called Nomades, because they have no houses, but live in wagons. The smallest of these wagons have four wheels, but some have six; they are covered in with felt, and they are constructed in the manner of houses, some having but a single apartment, and some three; they are proof against rain, snow, and winds. The wagons are drawn by yokes of oxen, some of two and others of three, and all without horns, for they have no horns, owing to the cold. In these wagons the women live, but the men are carried about on horses, and the sheep, oxen, and horses accompany them; and they remain on any spot as long as there is provender for their cattle, and when that fails they migrate to some other place. They eat boiled meat, and drink the milk of mares, and also eat hippace, which is cheese prepared from the milk of the mare. Such is their mode of life and their customs.
 
                                       Part 20
 
I Will give you a strong proof of the humidity (laxity?) of their constitutions. You will find the greater part of the Scythians, and all the Nomades, with marks of the cautery on their shoulders, arms, wrists, breasts, hip-joints, and loins, and that for no other reason but the humidity and flabbiness of their constitution, for they can neither strain with their bows, nor launch the javelin from their shoulder owing to their humidity and atony: but when they are burnt, much of the humidity in their joints is dried up, and they become better braced, better fed, and their joints get into a more suitable condition. They are flabby and squat at first, because, as in Egypt, they are not swathed (?); and then they pay no attention to horsemanship, so that they may be adepts at it; and because of their sedentary mode of life; for the males, when they cannot be carried about on horseback, sit the most of their time in the wagon, and rarely practise walking, because of their frequent migrations and shiftings of situation; and as to the women, it is amazing how flabby and sluggish they are. The Scythian race are tawny from the cold, and not from the intense heat of the sun, for the whiteness of the skin is parched by the cold, and becomes tawny. 
 

 
                                    John Wesley on "Magog"
                                                       Wesley on"Magog"
 
Wesley says Magog are the Sycthes; "

2. Gog - some think-. And that it must intend those enemies of God's church who descended from the Scythians, and are now masters of Cappadocia, Iberia, Armenia, or are in confederacy with the Tartars, and those northern heathens.
. Magog - Magog is, at least, part of Scythia, and comprehends Syria, in which was Hierapolis. taken by the Scythians, and called of them Scythopolis. It is that country, which now is in subjection to the Turks, and may be extended thro' Asia minor, 6. Gomer - Inhabitants of Galatia. Togarmah - Paphlagonia, and Cappadocia. The north quarters - The more northern people, the numerous Tartars.
13. Sheba - This Sheba was southward, and contains all of that coast which assisted Gog. Dedan - By these are noted, the eastern nations that assisted. Tarshish - The inhabitants of the sea-coast westward, and Magog north.
15. The north parts - From Scythia, from the Euxine and Caspian seas, and countries thereabouts."

                  Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary on Gog and Magog
Gog - (1.) A Reubenite (1 Chr. 5:4), the father of Shimei. Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary "Gog"        (2.) The name of the leader of the hostile party described in Ezek. 38,39, as coming from the "north country" and assailing the people of Israel to their own destruction. This prophecy has been regarded as fulfilled in the conflicts of the Maccabees with Antiochus, the invasion and overthrow of the Chaldeans, and the temporary successes and destined overthrow of the Turks. But "all these interpretations are unsatisfactory and inadequate. The vision respecting Gog and Magog in the Apocalypse (Rev. 20:8) is in substance a renouncement of this prophecy of Ezekiel. It has been supposed to be the name of a district in the wild northeast steppes of Central Asia, north of the Hindu-Kush, now a part of Turkestan, a region about 2,000 miles north-east of Nineveh.
Magog  
Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary "Magog"        region of Gog, the second of the "sons" of Japheth (Gen. 10:2; 1 Chr. 1:5). In Ezekiel (38:2; 39:6) it is the name of a nation, probably some Scythian or Tartar tribe descended from Japheth. They are described as skilled horsemen, and expert in the use of the bow. The Latin father Jerome says that this word denotes "Scythian nations, fierce and innumerable, who live beyond the Caucasus and the Lake Maeotis, and near the Caspian Sea,





 
Saint Jerome On Gog and Magog
 
The Latin father Jerome says that this word denotes “Scythian nations, fierce and innumerable, who live beyond the Caucasus and the Lake Maeotis, and near the Caspian Sea, and spread out even onward to India.” Perhaps the name “represents the Assyrian Mat Gugi, or ‘country of Gugu,’ the Gyges of the Greeks” (Sayce’s Races, etc.).

 
Magog is beyond the Caucasus near the Caspian Sea, Jewish Encyclopedia.com

 
 
                             J.Vernon McGee On Gog and Magog 
 
                                            Thru The Bible Radio Program
       Russia is Gog and will invade Israel. The enemy mentioned here is Russia. There are three points of contact Dr. Vernon McGee says that convinced him it was Russia.
1.)  Liguistic phenomenon-Gog means ruler; meaning roof; meaning man on top; Magog means head; Hebrew word Rosh means head;Dean Stanley-great Hebrew scholar states word Rosh should be Russia; Bishop Lowther stated name rosh in Ezekiel taken as a proper name signified Scythians from whom modern Russians derive their name. Russia was first called Muscovy derived from Meshech; Ivan the 4th, also known as Ivan the Terrible, Czar of Russia, took Muscovite throne 1533; Meshech and Tubal sound a lot like Moscow and Tobolsk. 
 
2.) Geographic phenomenom-Directly north of Israel is Russia and after Russia the polar bears. Gomar is Germany and Togarmah is Turkey. When looking on a map of Russia and Israel, Russia is the only country in the far north. (CIA book of facts map here)
 
3.) Ideological phenomenom-When God says he is against thee it is because the basic tenet of that nation is to be against God. Russia is an atheistic nation that is against God.
 
McGee's statement that no nation is against God more than communistic Russia which birthed the most aggressive communism the world has known is certainly correct. communist Russia became the first nation on earth to proclaim there was no God, only man and science.
  
       This idea of McGee's that Gomer is Germany is just plain wrong. No country today is more ashamed of their WW 2 atrocities against the Jews than modern Germany today. Not in a million years would they be caught invading Israel with Russia and Islam at their side. I'm not sure who Gomer is today but they certainly are not Germany.

 

       I  just do not feel that Gomer is Germany. I cannot picture Germany attacking Israel with Gog and Magog. McGee is wrong here and this is the old way of viewing these prophecies in that they predict, through symbolic interpretations of the European Union being Antichrist nations, the Antichrist nations (European Union or United Nations) will sweep down through southeastern Russia taking Israel, Blah Blah Blah. I do not think so. Germany today is probably one of Israel's best allies. It just isn't going happen. Beth Togarmah Is definitely Turkey though.

 
Caius Marius
Plutarch's Caius Marius 86 BC
By Plutarch

 
Caius Marius
(died 86 B.C.E.)

By Plutarch

Written 75 A.C.E.

Translated by John Dryden
 
There are some that say that the country of the Celti, in its vast size and extent, reaches from the furthest sea and the arctic regions to the lake Maeotis eastward, and to that part of Scythia which is near Pontus, and that there the nations mingle together; that they did not swarm out of their country all at once, or on a sudden, but advancing by force of arms, in the summer season, every year, in the course of time they crossed the whole continent. And thus, though each party had several appellations, yet the whole army was called by the common name of Celto-Scythians. Others say that the Cimmerii, anciently known to the Greeks, were only a small part of the nation, who were driven out upon some quarrel among the Scythians, and passed all along from the lake Maeotis to Asia, under the conduct of one Lygdamis; and that the greater and more warlike part of them still inhabit the remotest regions lying upon the outer ocean. These, they say, live in a dark and woody country hardly penetrable by the sunbeams, the trees are so close and thick, extending into the interior as far as the Hercynian forest; and their position on the earth is under that part of heaven where the pole is so elevated that, by the declination of the parallels, the zenith of the inhabitants seems to be but little distant from it; and that their days and nights being almost of an equal length, they divide their year into one of each. This was Homer's occasion for the story of Ulysses calling up the dead, and from this region the people, anciently called Cimmerii, and afterwards, by an easy change, Cimbri, came into Italy. All this, however, is rather conjecture than an authentic history. 
 
Their numbers, most writers agree, were not less, but rather greater than was reported. They were of invincible strength and fierceness in their wars, and hurried into battle with the violence of a devouring flame; none could withstand them: all they assaulted became their prey. Several of the greatest Roman commanders with their whole armies, that advanced for the defence of Transalpine Gaul, were ingloriously overthrown, and, indeed, by their faint resistance, chiefly gave them the impulse of marching towards Rome. Having vanquished all they had met, and found abundance of plunder, they resolved to settle themselves nowhere till they should have razed the city and wasted all Italy. The Romans, being from all parts alarmed with this news, sent for Marius to undertake the war, and nominated him the second time consul, though the law did not permit any one that was absent, or that had not waited a certain time after his first consulship, to be again created. But the people rejected all opposers, for they considered this was not the first time that the law gave place to the common interest; nor the present occasion less urgent than that when, contrary to law, they made Scipio consul, not in fear for the destruction of their own city, but desiring the ruin of that of the Carthaginians
 
                                 John Woolvard On Gog and Magog
 
                                    Marco Polo on Gog and Magog
 
       There are so many different references related to exactly who Magog and Gog are. One could conclude as Catholicism has overall, that the references are so vague and general, the inferences of Gog and Magog being so general in Revelation 20:8, so contradictory and confusing when researching them through extrabiblical historians, we will never know who Magog is until after that prophecy has already been fulfilled. Unfortunately this contradicts the very purpose of these important prophecies. We must ask ourselves why the Lord Almighty would utter these prophecies through such a great prophet as Ezekiel. Certainly they are warning of a future time of things coming. For if the Lord gave us these words there will be a time when we will know what these prophecies mean. It is quite possible the time when we know is later than this time.
       On the other hand maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. Maybe what is important in considering who Magog is not who people say they are all throughout history, as much as who mankind says Magog was during the times Magog is mentioned in the bible. Ezekiel prophesied the book of Ezekiel around 592 B.C. to around 567 B.C. The Apostle John received his Revelation from Jesus Christ while on the island of Patmos around 95 A.D. also mentioning Gog and Magog in Revelation 20:8 as a sort of general reference of the nations in the four corners of the earth around the years 2,975 to 3,017 depending how may years the Lord gives Satan to deceive the nations and tempt them this last time.  
 
  
       Ezekiel chapter 38 and 39 appear the same, they're not, but there are subtle differences indicating two separate time periods [incredibly by almost 1,000 years] being prophesied about by Ezekiel.  The differences highlighted for simplification are as follows:
 
 
Ezekiel chapter 39 verses 1-2, 4, 6-7, 9, 17-20, 22-24
 
 
                                                      Premillennial Gog Magog
                                    Ezekiel Chapter 39:1-2, 4, 6-7, 9, 17-20, 22-24 NIV 

 
39:1-"Son of man, prophecy against Gog and say: This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, O Gog chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. 
 
God telling Ezekiel to "Prophecy against," seems to infer the coming 1,000 years of the Lord's patience of  Gog, Magog and Hordes. Notice this is in a completely different tone versus Ezekiel 38:1 in which God instructs his prophet Ezekiel to 'set his face,  a final judgment siliqua indicative of God's patience having finally run its course. No man has seen God's face and lived, Exodus 33:20. I are to see God's back, following God, going the same way as God. If we see God's face we are going in the opposite direction as God.
 
39:2- I will turn you around and drag you along. I will bring you from the far north and send you against the mountains of Israel.
 
If Gog is Russia as many believe notice the tone here. God will force Russia to leave the far north to go against the mountains of Israel. Consider these things. Russia, ever since 1948, has attacked Israel under the table in the cover of darkness, attacked Israel by providing arms, AK47s and such, to Israel's Islamic enemies that have surrounded her wishing to push her into the sea.. But God has a different plan that will expose Russia's true intentions by forcing Gog to attack the mountains of Israel to be forced to fall by God on the mountains of Israel. You see Russia would rather sit back and meddle, stirring things up against Israel because Israel has been the darling of the most powerful western countries America and Great Britain.  Russia has used this as a thorn in the side of the west.  For Russia hates Israel, America and Great Britain for we once had very large religious populations. This is why Russia cozies up so well with Islamic countries, not so much that Russia likes these countries but with the belief that they are stronger and will defeat Christians. Although the casualties will be momentous we know that Gog will get back up later to attack God's people once again 1,000 years later according to Revelation 20:7-9.
 
39:4-On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the nations with you. I will give you as food to all kinds of carrion birds and to the wild animals.
 
Could this be a blood sacrifice for the redemption of creation? Just a thought. Will fall on the mountains of Israel becoming food to all kinds of birds and wild animals. "Will Fall," seems to lack some kind of finality that is confirmed when we see that a 1,000 years later Gog and Magog do attack Jerusalem again. Verse 5 does indicate finality of at least the troops yet we know Revelation 20:7-9 and Ezekiel chapter 38 indicate a new war campaign 1,000 years later and the finality of a defeat.
 
39:6-I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety, in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the Lord. 
 
This statement is indicative that Magog is a land area or country and people group that has a great deal in common with the people that live on the coastlands of the Mediterranean Sea. The people that live on the coastlands today are all Islamic. Since God does not mention fire is sent to Gog indicates Gog to be a real person yet when one reads Revelation 20:7 one is left with the impression of a Gog being just like Magog, a people group. God sends a plague of fire to Magog and those living in safety on the coastlands.
 
39:7-I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profane, and the nations will know that  I the Lord am the Holy One of Israel. 
 
This is indicative of a great harvest all over the earth and in the nation of Israel. This great harvest period is prophesied as the last six year period known as "The great harvest spotted and striped sheep period" of the prophecy of The Time Of Jacob's Trouble . God's holy name will become known not only all over Israel, but all over the nations of the gentiles of the world. When God says "I will make my name known," this means there will be a great harvest just as there was also a great harvest by Jacob of the spotted and striped sheep that were redeemed along with the slave brides he worked seven years each to redeem from slavery, Rachel and Leah, Genesis 31:14-16.
 
39:9-Then those who live in the towns of Israel will go out and use the weapons for fuel and burn them up---the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel.
 
Those living in towns will use the weapons as fuel to burn for 7 years, the last seven years before the beginning of the Millennium. It appears there will be so much bomb ordinances left over that did not explode they will use the fuel for cooking and heating. During much of these last 7 years most Israelites will be on the run from the Antichrist nations that will invade their land. It appears this Antichrist system will be different than Gog and Magog for were there is scripture of the Antichrist they will have some sort of limited success in their invasion of Israel,  for he will sit at the Temple becoming the Abomination of Desolation during the last year of the Seventy Years Prophecy . We also know according to scripture that Antichrist does not rule Israel for a seven year period as many preachers and teachers say because scripture clearly teaches otherwise in Ezekiel 39:9. For in Ezekiel 39:9 Israelites could not surely be working for seven years cleaning up their country of the bones from dead bodies of Gog and Magog unless they were still a free people. This does not mean that Antichrist doesn't rule other parts of the world or the middle east though, just that his final year is the last week of the Seventy Years Prophecy , Daniel 9:27. Why would God on the one hand defeat Gog and Magog yet on the other hand allow a defeat by the Antichrist nations that were with Gog and Magog in the invasion? Certainly they also could be part of Gog and Magog and actually coming back 6 to 7 years later to [try again]. So although Gog and Mag invade Israel twice, defeated by God twice, two humiliating huge campaign defeats there is evidence that Israel will be pretty unscathed in compared to the rest of the world in which there will be what appears to be a nuclear war that kills 2 billion people, 1/3 of mankind, Revelation 9:12-18. It is interesting that these are called the 200 million man army that comes from an area on earth just east of the Euphrates River, Revelation 9:14, 16:12, 17:16, 18:8, 18:17. God doesn't call it nukes but the plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur, Revelation 9:18. 
 
39:17-20-"Son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Call out to every kind of bird and the wild animals: 'Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrifice I am preparing for you, the great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth as if they were rams and lambs, goats and bulls---all of them fattened animals from Bashan. 19 At the sacrifice I am preparing for you, you will eat fat until you are gluttoned and drink blood till you are drunk. 20 At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, mighty men and soldiers of every kind, 'declares the Sovereign Lord.' "
 
39:22-24-From that day forward the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God. 23 And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me. So I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and their offenses, and I hid my face from them.
Verse 22 indicates this entire chapter 39 is of a time when all of Israel turns to Christ as their Savior. We know this occurs during the last seven years of The Time Of Jacob's Trouble during the prophetic fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles and the 2nd closing of the Seventy Years Prophecy . It will be after Babylon the Great, America falls in one hour, after the rapture assembly but before the Tribulation Saints assembly.
Verse 23&24-The reason God hid his face was that judgment was delayed so all that may be saved will be saved, till the whole harvest comes in. For no man lives that has seen God's face. Everyone is unclean for all salvation comes as a free gift by the pure grace of Jesus Christ. All are unclean till they meet Christ.  

 
 
                         Post Millennial Gog Magog  
                             Revelation 20:7-9 NIV
 
       7 When the 1,000 years are over, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth---Gog and Magog---to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
 
 
                              Postmillennial Gog Magog
                                     Ezekiel 38:1-23 NIV
 
       1 The word of the Lord came to me: 2"Son of man set your face against Gog, of the land  of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him 3 and say:'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. "I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army---your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. 5 Persia, Cush and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, 6 also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops---the many nations with you.

38:1-God sets his face against Gog of Magog, chief Prince of Meshach & Tubal, Persia, Cush, Put with Beth Togarmah from   far north with it's troops.

 
       7 " 'Get ready;  be prepared, you and all the hordes gathered about you, and take command of them. 8 After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will  invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety. 9 You and all your troops and the many nations with you will go up,  advancing like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land.
       Gog will invade an Israel that has recovered from war. This begs the obvious questions. Has Israel recovered from war today, and if not today then when in Israel's history will she have recovered from war? Will she have recovered from war when invaded as prophesied over these last 81/2 years according to the Seventy Years Prophecy "Seventy years prophecy" and "The Time Of Jacob's Trouble"? No, they have not recovered from war. They have been in constant war since they became a new nation on May 14th, 1948.  They have been constantly attacked and at war ever since then, always being threatened, never fully recovered from war. Is there ever a time in history when Israel will have been recovered from war and will be attacked by Gog and Magog? Yes, at the end of the 1,000 year millennium when Christ rules with the Christ followers as the King of King and Lord of Lord. This would be a 1,000 years after the first resurrection.  Israel today is in a constant state of war and will be until the Antichrist, False prophet and Satan are defeated by Jesus Christ at the 2nd Coming after the rapture and about a 7 year Tribulation Saints period in which the greatest harvest of mankind will appear according to The Time Of Jacob's Trouble Prophecy.
       The issue is this. During this period when Israel is invaded by Gog; Will it be during a time when israel has recovered from war? No! Israel is in a constant state of war today and has been ever since she became a nation in 1948 and will be until the end of the seventy year prophecy in the year 2018. There is no time when Israel will have recovered from war until after Christ comes and ushers in the 1,000 year millennium world peace. After the 2nd Coming Judgment-resurrection in the year 2018 Christ will usher in peace not only for Israel but for all the God followers for the 1,000 year millennium because a purging of evil will occur and people will be judged on whether or not they accepted Christ into their hearts and repented of their sins. Since because of this sin will almost be nonexistent Israel and the world will have a 1,000 year time of peace.  When Gog invades again than Gog would be invading the land of Israel that was a land that has recovered from war.
       To assume this occurs at the end of the 1,000 millennium lines up better with Revelation 20:8 which reads that Satan is once again released who goes to the Gog and Magog  nations that have spread all over the earth and once again attack Israel.This is the only way that these verses can be interpreted.

  
       10" ' This is what the Sovereign Lord says: On that day thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil scheme. 11You will say, "I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people---all of them living without walls and without gates and bars. 12 I will plunder and loot and turn my hand against the resettled ruins and the people gathered from the nations, rich in livestock and goods, living at the center of the land." 13 Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish and all her villages will say to you, "Have you come to plunder? Have you gathered your hordes to loot, to carry off silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, and to seize much plunder?" '
38:11-Will invade a peaceful and unsuspecting people without walls, without gates and without bars. This makes no sense as a fulfillment today or anytime soon since Israel does have walls so terrorists cannot get in, gates that check peoples credentials and passports and bars. Once the suicide bombers started in 1998 they started checking people at the gates entering Israel from other areas of Palestine. Now they have walls and gates everywhere. But at the end of the 1,000 year millennium with a perfect peace that was ushered in and managed by Christ as the perfect King of Kings and Lord of Lords, there will no longer be any gates or walls in Israel, or anywhere on earth for that matter.  What we would consider normal deterrents of crime and terror today would not be considered at that time.
38:12-The center of the earth today is not Israel but America for ll nations are streaming to Babylon the Great, America. They come to our country for many reasons, to go to school, to get wealthy, but mostly to worship the false gods of materialism.

 
       14"Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog: 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: In that day, when my people Israel are living in safety, will you not take notice of it? 15 You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses, a great horde, a mighty army. 16 You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud that covers the land. In days to come, O Gog, I will bring you against my land, so that the nations may know me when I show myself holy through you before their eyes.
38:15-All you riding on horses coming to plunder. There will be no pollution during the millennium it is safe to presume so these could be literal horses. Of course this could also be symbolic fulfillment also. Time will tell.

 
       17" 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Are you not the one I spoke of in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel? At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them. 18 This is what will happen in that day: When Gog attacks the land of Israel, my hot anger will be aroused, declares the Sovereign Lord. 19 In my zeal and fiery wrath I declare that at that time there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20 The fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the beasts of the field, every creature that moves along the ground, and all the people on the face of the earth will tremble at my presence. The mountains will be overturned, the cliffs will crumble and every wall will fall to the ground. 21 I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign Lord. Every man's sword will be against his brother. 22 I will execute judgment upon him with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and his troops, and on the many nations with him. 23 And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.' 

38:19-Will be a great earthquake when Gog attacks Israel
38:22-Plagues of torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on Gog and troops.
 
If you were blessed by this sermon on prophecy, like Paul, I ask of no money from you, like the many false prophets of today wearing big gold jewelry and expensive showy clothes, showy cars and houses, worshipping their idols of Babylon.  I ask of no money, even though, if  asking  for money I would be right not wrong, and everyone feeding at this trough would be obligated to support the trough builder's servant.  I only ask of one thing on this matter. Tell others of this web site, providing links, so that they may be blessed as you were blessed, waking them up to the times in which we live.  

 
                                     So, now its your turn. Anything you would like to add or take away? Is there something you would like to interpret differently? How do you account for these scriptures that seemingly on the surface appear to repeat themselves in chapters 38 & 39? How do you account for the comparative study of these scriptures and how they fit together with Revelation 19:17-21, 20:7-9 so as to not contradict each other? Please leave scriptural evidence to back up what you believe rather than just your feelings or the repeating of something you heard somewhere..  
Posted 8/13/2010 at 3:7 PM
 
© This material is copyrighted all rights reserved
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